Topic: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News  (Read 37614 times)

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Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« on: December 26, 2014, 11:30:56 PM »

Atari800xl

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This topic is mainly for announcing new versions of Disk imaging software
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 11:16:20 AM by Atari800xl »

Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2014, 11:31:30 PM »

Atari800xl

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...reserved...
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 11:17:00 AM by Atari800xl »

Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2014, 11:32:00 PM »

Atari800xl

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...working on this...
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 11:16:45 AM by Atari800xl »

Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2014, 11:32:51 PM »

Atari800xl

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... reserved ...
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 11:17:25 AM by Atari800xl »

Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2014, 10:08:36 AM »

Lancelot

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Great Tutorial Atari800xl, thanks  :thumbsup:

Well, you can include Gena as one of favorite PE, pe1 still many peoples favorite PE and Gena is The Only active one  :wink:,
 I know many Disk Imagers still works on Gena  :wink: also I know you only test and use with SE  :wink:
 .... (....further all tested by me on SE .. ;) )


Well Done  :smile:

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Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2014, 10:55:50 AM »

Atari800xl

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It's not so much a Tutorial thread, but a combination of news (new releases) and some info on which files (drivers) have changed, etc. And of course links to existing scripts. Just trying to bring all those things together.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 09:31:06 PM by Atari800xl »

Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2014, 11:03:43 AM »

Lancelot

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Sure  :thumbsup:

What I meant was exactly what you are wrote,
 What I ask, only add Gena to the list and mention further tested on SE,
  we know they mostly work or can work on Gena (tricky driver adding..), but most naturally not interested in ;)
   and I do not want you to work on this task too, you don't have to, please don't feel you oblige to,
    you are very more interested in SE, keep on   :thumbsup:
      only, do not exclude Gena's existance on such a nice topic  :cool:
       I also don't have time to work on such long tasks, maybe in future oscar   :great:

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Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2014, 07:04:05 PM »

anshad

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There is no doubt that disk imaging apps are the most widely used plugins on recovery discs. It's nice to see all of them in one place. Keep up the good job mate  :thumbsup:.

Quote
Well, you can include Gena as one of favorite PE, pe1 still many peoples favorite PE and Gena is The Only active one


Some legacy apps will only work properly on PE 1. One particular example is "Victoria" (HDD diagnostics). Some of it's functions won't work in PE3/PE4 environments. Since disk diagnostic is one thing i have to do daily in my line of work, Gena is  Indispensable for me.

Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2014, 03:44:50 AM »

Atari800xl

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Quote
"Victoria" (HDD diagnostics). Some of it's functions won't work in PE3/PE4 environments. Since disk diagnostic is one thing i have to do daily in my line of work, Gena is  Indispensable for me.
So, now I have Gena going again, I'm really interested in what Gena's unique "selling points" are. If you find the time, maybe you can share some details on which particular tasks only Gena (and Victoria) can do? Thanks!
(Kinda funny you mention disk related tasks, because I remember one of the reasons I left Gena behind [for a while] was that XP disk management had some trouble with my multiboot setup. I'd have to look up some notes to see what the exact problem was, but I'm sure you can tell me how Gena performs in that respect. Have you run into that problem as well? Do you use third party HD managers?)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 03:48:01 AM by Atari800xl »

Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2014, 04:46:50 AM »

anshad

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Quote
Kinda funny you mention disk related tasks, because I remember one of the reasons I left Gena behind [for a while] was that XP disk management had some trouble with my multiboot setup. I'd have to look up some notes to see what the exact problem was, but I'm sure you can tell me how Gena performs in that respect. Have you run into that problem as well? Do you use third party HD managers?

Yes, there are known issues with "PE 1" disk management. You can delete partitions but you won't be able to create and format new ones. You will receive  some sort of error message which i don't exactly remember. Also WinXP by default doesn't have support for GPT disks ( there is a workaround by using "disk.sys" from 2003 server ).

As Lancelot said in http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=1143.msg13222#msg13222, use Server 2003 SP2 as source and disable "Small Core build" to enable full file copy. This will make "Disk management" fully working and improve compatibility with newer hardwares - including GPT disks. However i strongly recommend to use "Partition Wizard" for disk management functions as it is very reliable and feature rich in my opinion. I have did countless convert/resize operations with it and always worked like a charm.

 
Quote
If you find the time, maybe you can share some details on which particular tasks only Gena (and Victoria) can do?


"Victoria" requires direct access to the disk bypassing OS API. The driver which enables direct disk access is written at XP times and thus works fine on PE 1. All functions of Victoria including bad sector remapping fully functional on Gena. But on PE3 and 4/5, remap operation doesn't seems to work. I don't recommend to fix bad sectors and reuse a hard drive but just mentioned it as an example.

One other reason i still use Gena is it's small size. It fits nicely on a CD and boots fast.  I still encounters machines which doesn't have USB boot function in my line of work. Usually i use my Gena CD on that systems for repair and recovery.

Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2014, 06:16:23 AM »

Lancelot

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Yes, there are known issues with "PE 1" disk management. You can delete partitions but you won't be able to create and format new ones. You will receive  some sort of error message which i don't exactly remember. Also WinXP by default doesn't have support for GPT disks ( there is a workaround by using "disk.sys" from 2003 server )
What anshad means with Windows DiskManagement, MMC plugin was default selected false for such reasons ;)
I just update mmc to only disable diskmanagement  :wink: (to force using 3rd party ;))

all results from anshad here at reply 38 http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=526.msg10991#msg10991

As Lancelot said in http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=1143.msg13222#msg13222, use Server 2003 SP2 as source and disable "Small Core build" to enable full file copy.
well, maybe no need to disable "Small Core build" anymore !?!

I just update dps and add new dps nightlies, selected default,
during tests I figure out new dps nightlies packages need drivers by Removable Devices Combo (which also comes from big build !?!)

Now Gena default build see my harddrive out of box  :grin: :tongue: (small build, xp/2k3 , xp needs Gena\Drivers\4 Storage\GPTSupport XP 32bit (disk.sys)  )
 Thanks to dps guys  :cool:

one thing missed, I can not get usb sticks work, they need to be formatted  :grin: (big/small ,during boot, 2k3/sp, all result same)
 well, accessing harddrive has top priority, I can live with that  :cool:

ps: on dps plugin, when changing packages, since dps plugin uses latest dps .7z, there is now "delete dps path" ;) , will be improved later by Galapo to follow scrollbox....

maybe now Gena can get disk access to other modern devices like Atari800xl have ;) at least condition is better than old stable package  :cool:

further test results on Gena with latest dps nightlies better here http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=526

anyway, now Gena default back on Disk Imager game  :lol:

:turtle:

Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2015, 02:08:59 AM »

Lancelot

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Just an update,

one thing missed, I can not get usb sticks work, they need to be formatted  :grin: (big/small ,during boot, 2k3/sp, all result same)
 well, accessing harddrive has top priority, I can live with that  :cool:
it was my fault,
after adding exfat plugin, usb sticks work  :thumbsup:
only a usb3 stick can not get drive letter automatically, MountStorPE fix that  :thumbsup:
   (mentioned before here http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=526.msg13252#msg13252 just re testet )
      I add MountStorePE to desktop as default  :wink: aside adding new device letters, it adds letters to hidden ones, very useful  :wink:

further dps nightlies integration to Gena finished  :thumbsup: All disks ok with my latest hardwares  :great:

Gena seems to continue some more years operational on new devices ...

See You
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Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2015, 04:36:38 PM »

Prz42

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Hi Atari,
I just finished a couple of script thanks to the help of Lancelot and wanted to share. :thumbsup:
Introduction

This topic is mainly for announcing new versions of Disk imaging software ("imagers"), that can be built into your favorite PE (Using a "special" PE project from TheOven.org, of course).
It is also for sharing tips on where you can find ready-made scripts to do the work for you, and for going "behind the scenes" a bit, to see how those scripts actually work: which files are needed to make the imagers work in PE ("dependencies"), are extra drivers needed, what has changed between versions, etc.

- Terabyte Image for Windows (same)
Since the Plugin with File Container is larger I have posted a link to that file.  Just remember
put the Plugin with File Container with the script you are using in the same folder.  Something
like Projects\Win8.1SE\Apps\HD Tasks\Imaging\TeraByte.Script. The links are

http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=1290.msg15018#msg15018
Enjoy..... :vacuum:
 :great:
« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 12:31:08 PM by Prz42 »

Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2015, 08:56:37 PM »

Atari800xl

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Wow Mark, very impressive that you made these scripts after such a short time, you are a quick learner!
I haven't tried Ghost in ages, so I'm looking forward to testing it.

I think you'd better remove the links to the actual program files though (better use PM for that), because it's not allowed on the forum (ChrisR could get in trouble if the software companies find out).

About the file containers: Very nice work, I seem to remember I could set "Level=5" to scripts like this, to make them visible in the builder, after that I could extract the files. (Set level=5, start builder, select the now visible file container, click the tiny blue wrench, select "attachments" tab, use built-in extract).
But with your file container that doesn't seem to be possible. Maybe some extra lines are needed? I seem to recall some extra foldernames in [EncodedFolders] and [Folder]?

There is a way to extract the files without running though, I just commented out the "Call" line in the [Launch_Program] section. This way, the program files were also extracted to the project's "Temp" folder.

Again, this is great stuff, I hope you will find the time to create more nice stuff like this! Thank you again! :thumbsup:

Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2015, 09:44:05 PM »

Atari800xl

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Mark, another special thanks for the Ghost script (and the files!) I've used Ghost a lot in "the old days", I guess from 2000-2005, I always used the 2,88mb image on a EasyBoot-multiboot CD, but I always had problems with it when I started to use Windows 7 and upward. Most of that might have been my own stupidity, but I could never get the bootsector stuff etc. right. That's when I started using the Acronis boot CD, which was quicker and easier for me. Still, I would have preferred to keep using Ghost, if only Ghost would have been a bit, well... better (we all know the stories...)

It was actually a lot of fun watching Ghost doing a backup right now, using my "new" Gena usb (new disk.sys etc.). It's a bit like going back in time for me, thanks for that nice trip... I was wondering: Do you still use Ghost with all new operating systems? Are there any special things to keep in mind?

EDIT: I was thinking a bit about your Terabyte Image script, the fact that you can't share the files, and the license key needed to make it run. Maybe you can make a new script, like others have done for Acronis/ Macrium etc, that takes the original download, then extract it, copy the needed files for PE, and add some GUI elements to add the license info?
The official download is here: http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downloads/ifw_en_ifdgui_trial.exe
it's only a 14mb download and all files can be easily extracted with innounp.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 09:51:55 PM by Atari800xl »

Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2015, 12:10:00 AM »

Atari800xl

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I just did a quick speed compare again, because I wanted to see how my latest additions performed in a simple test. As I've said in the intro, speed benchmarks are always tricky, because practical uses are different for everybody. I tested backups from a laptop (XP partition, around 4gb used including swap and hiberfil) to an external usb 2 harddisk. It seems the "new ones" have pretty decent performance...
Backup speed (lower is better): Acronis: 100%, Shadowprotect 116%, Aomei 130%, Ghost 136%, Active@ 173%, Paragon 200%, Macrium 226%, Terabyte 236%, Drive Snapshot 300% (normally [backup to internal disk?] much faster...)
Size: Drive Snapshot 97%, Acronis 100%, Terabyte 100%, Shadowprotect 105%, Paragon 111%, Active@ 114%, Ghost 114%, Aomei 168%, Macrium 206%

EDIT: Forgot to mention the restore times:
ShadowProtect: 88%, Acronis 100%, Drive Snapshot 144%, Terabyte 162%, Macrium 200%, Ghost 210%, Active@ 210%, Aomei 275%

So Shadowprotect and Ghost are doing a pretty decent job. Both are quite portable as well (Ghost is even "extremely" portable with just the 4mb exe), so nice additions...
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 02:33:55 AM by Atari800xl »

Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2015, 12:29:26 AM »

Lancelot

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Hi Atari800xl,


EDIT: I was thinking a bit about your Terabyte Image script, the fact that you can't share the files, and the license key needed to make it run. Maybe you can make a new script, like others have done for Acronis/ Macrium etc, that takes the original download, then extract it, copy the needed files for PE, and add some GUI elements to add the license info?
The official download is here: http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downloads/ifw_en_ifdgui_trial.exe
it's only a 14mb download and all files can be easily extracted with innounp.

Mark is new around, no need to force him do complex thing.


Better you create such a plugin,
 use provide file kind plugin, add a "License" and add a "Download" button to download and extract to provide file folder
  as a tip, at "PC Provide Files" check [Download_Files] and related sections
    result may demonstrate Mark a nice example. :thumbsup:

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Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2015, 08:19:40 AM »

Atari800xl

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Thanks to a very nice tip from Anshad, I checked out LinhHonHuynhDe's "DLCD" boot CD, which has a very clever "portable" Acronis True Image version (no builder script needed for drivers). It is actually brilliantly simple, because he just makes all the .reg settings in a batch file prior to running TI, then starts the necessary services "by hand" and launches TI. I've always wondered if it could be this simple, and "feared" it wouldn't be, but as it turns out:
 :grin: IT IS!!!  :grin:

So I've done a lot of testing today, to make sure Acronis is working on Gena-32, W7pese-32, W8pese-64 and W8.1SE-PE64. This syswow64 and wow6432node stuff still has me confused every now and then, but I think I've got it all down correctly now, so I hope I can share the full "story" with you in the coming weeks. I tested these scenarios:
32bit TrueImage 2014 (builds 6673 and 6688) on 32bit PE
32bit TrueImage 2014 (builds 6673 and 6688) on 64bit PE
64bit TrueImage 2015 (build 6525) on 64bit PE

The (newer) 64bit TrueImage program files actually didn't work with the 32bit serial provided (well, not a 32bit serial per se, but a serial for the previous 32bit version), but luckily I had another one which worked just fine. So thanks again to Anshad and LinhHonHuynhDe, I hope LinhHonHuynhDe will allow me to share his batchfile here, he is a member of this forum.
Great stuff!! :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 08:22:07 AM by Atari800xl »

Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2015, 08:25:31 AM »

Atari800xl

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In a completely unrelated story, I had the opportunity to test Ghost32 12.0.0.6257 datecode 20140521.
(Of course, this is the "Corporate" series as in 6.5, 7, 8, not the "Consumer" versions, like 9, 10, 12, 15.)
:whisper: To be honest, I didn't even know there were Ghost (corp) versions this recent, just wanted to share the version info for those interested.
Nice going on the confusing "12" version, though...  :logik:
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 08:43:47 AM by Atari800xl »

Re: Disk imagers in PE/SE: Basic build info - Comparison - News
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2015, 08:29:20 AM »

Lancelot

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You seem to be a good searcher on net,

Maybe you can find a dps-x64 (or similar ;)) for Gena-x64

no idea about ghost32 12 except wiki ;)

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