Topic: 'under the hood'? wow64 etc.  (Read 2204 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

'under the hood'? wow64 etc.
« on: April 27, 2016, 01:18:22 AM »

vvurat

  • Jr. Chef
  • **
  • Date Registered: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 42
It is bad to see same things continues for years. Boot-land did not liked your ideas and comments you escaped to here and opened this forum. They did not liked my ideas i escaped to msfn. You do not like my ideas and i will also escape to msfn again because here is your farm and you are using it as your wish. MSFN is just the place people can be free only. If you do not like me you are also free not to respond my comments.


edit Lancelot:
topic splitted, after Reply 22 here
http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=1639.msg20244#msg20244
to current topic
http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=1751.msg20254#msg20254
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 08:23:49 AM by Lancelot »

Re: 'under the hood'?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2016, 01:57:05 AM »

Atari800xl

  • Code Baker
  • Sr. Chef
  • ****
  • Date Registered: Feb 2013
  • Posts: 784
Uh oh....

Let's keep the discussion to the technical stuff, please. Let's not lose noelBlanc's nice input...

I do want to say one thing: I take "Under the hood" as meaning: "Please let me see that powerful engine that is in your car, please open up the hood". Let's all watch in amazement where all that power is coming from. Something like that...

And not: "Ahh, so there's a big secret under there, that I don't want anybody to see, it's my little secret"

I believe that's what noelBlanc is trying to say as well. I am sure we are all aware of the fact that TheOven and all its developers are completely "open" about their projects, I don't think anyone is accusing them of "secret" goings on...

Hey, it's a national holiday here in the Netherlands, let's all rejoice and be happy!!!!

 :thumbsup:

Re: 'under the hood'?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2016, 02:18:59 AM »

Lancelot

  • Gena Baker
  • Grand Chef
  • *****
  • Date Registered: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 7237
Hi vvurat,

It is bad to see same things continues for years.
It is bad to see you respond emotionally,
 above my post
http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=1639.msg20244#msg20244
 is only about what is written.
http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=1639.msg20240#msg20240

 I do not know what makes you respond my post that way !!! .


Boot-land did not liked your ideas and comments you escaped to here and opened this forum.
let me fix:
Boot-land do not like anyone who creates any other project than themselves.
 many left before (JFX,... ) and after me (Galapo, ChrisR,...).
Galapo opened current forum.

My ideas was about how to create and continue project development to get things to better,
 which later I understood was not serving Boot-land goals.
   Time self proved my ideas was right.  :cool:

I remember we discussed these area, and naturally we continue on our path we like,
 still if you like we can discuss in Turkish on another topic, which would be a theory discussion like before !
  And a theory (or hypothesis) discussion should not turn to an emotional discussion, following its nature ....

They did not liked my ideas i escaped to msfn. You do not like my ideas and i will also escape to msfn again because here is your farm and you are using it as your wish. MSFN is just the place people can be free only.
let me fix:
I have no problem with your ideas,
 my ideas also not fully match with others still we continue together finding mid points,
 and I did not write anything on previous post opposite to your ideas only explained the situation.

Still I can not understand where your above post comes !
let me fix:
commercial general forums like msfn are always happy as long as you increase post # following their rules.
 chinese and russian forums provide more information and tools on these areas.

And frequently, if good enough and up to author, like bootice,
 a good development continue on its homepage rather than general forum.

If you do not like me you are also free not to respond my comments.
As you should already be aware after many years, I post about things what you or any other wrote.


Well it is you to post out of subject, and here I wrote my respond.

As written by Atari800xl, Let's keep the discussion on MicroWinpeBuilder on current topic.
 You can create another topic if you want to discuss other things.  :thumbsup:

:turtle:

Re: 'under the hood'?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2016, 02:34:17 AM »

vvurat

  • Jr. Chef
  • **
  • Date Registered: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 42
Sorry if i misunderstand you said 

  * And we do not need to respond to clever people since they already can read and use already provided open source info (like you), and do not post unnecessary things to topics.


and as i understand from here "if you are clever you can find by yourself do not ask in here" it was like getting fun with my mind and called my comments are unnecessary things.

Of course i can open scripts read and understand because they are clean txt files but there are some autoit stuff like AU3381.exe and WOW64Patch.exe etc...

I know what they are doing but do not know how they are doing with which command lines or what they have inside. I want to use such stuff outside of winpese standalone. At past i have spent too much efforts to use full registry hives unchanged and years later it was implemented to winpese, at that time ChirisR wanted to keep it secret and gave it a strange name AU3381.exe that nobody knows what it do. Maybe today it can be secret or not.

Re: 'under the hood'?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2016, 02:50:14 AM »

Lancelot

  • Gena Baker
  • Grand Chef
  • *****
  • Date Registered: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 7237

  * And we do not need to respond to clever people since they already can read and use already provided open source info (like you), and do not post unnecessary things to topics.

let me fix:
I wrote you are clever  :thumbsup:
 You can read open source provided info :thumbsup:
 You can use this info the way you need  :thumbsup:
   Any other guy who complains about not provided information on forum is only a lazy guy. Playing "bend logic" kind of post game, provoking others to do his job for his goal.

"
- Anne kazık hoca zor bir ödev verdi yapamıyorum.
- Vay acımasız vay, Dur oğlum ben senin yerine yapayım.
- hihihi
"


called my comments are unnecessary things.
Your comments were provoked by such a lazy people, and there I also feel some misunderstandings,
 I tried to explain the situation how we react to such other people.

*
autoit stuff like AU3381.exe
AU3381.exe never be a secret.

on this cases, .au3 file too also attached open source,
 and .au3 extension is well known to AutoIT,
 it is no secret to figure out AU3381.exe is AutoIT executable.
 One can right click to see properties of AU3381.exe .....

AU3381.exe file naming used to give version number to avoid version conflicts of AutoIT we faced in the past.

I guess all clear now.  :great:

Re: 'under the hood'?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2016, 02:55:23 AM »

vvurat

  • Jr. Chef
  • **
  • Date Registered: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 42
Ok. Then can you forward me to source code then. AU3381.au3, WOW64Patch.au3 and if there is any other stuff i forgot to mention. Autorun.au3, run64.au3, loadwow64.au3, stsrtnet_x64.au3, textontop_x64.au3, win10wow64support-native.au3 maybe.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 03:01:23 AM by vvurat »

Re: 'under the hood'?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2016, 03:04:39 AM »

Lancelot

  • Gena Baker
  • Grand Chef
  • *****
  • Date Registered: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 7237
As you wrote there is %1,
AU3381.au3 -> I guess you mean AutoIT.exe , AutoIT is written in C++ (I guess) by Jonathan Benett, and after a version it is closed source.
others, up to JFX, on another topic.

Re: 'under the hood'?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2016, 03:11:05 AM »

vvurat

  • Jr. Chef
  • **
  • Date Registered: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 42
Ok. If JFX read this can he share source codes with me  :smile:

We should close this conversation in here because we are lots of out of topic. Maybe our posts should moved to a general discussion free topic.

Re: 'under the hood'?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2016, 03:48:20 AM »

Atari800xl

  • Code Baker
  • Sr. Chef
  • ****
  • Date Registered: Feb 2013
  • Posts: 784
Hmm, language is a beautiful thing...

vvurat, I get the feeling you're still missing something.

AU3381 is not a program made by anybody at TheOven, it is the normal .exe file of "AutoIt", and is available all around the net. Check the SHA1 checksum of the file and google that. Or upload the au3361.exe to www,virustotal.com, it will tell you the .exe is actually named "AutoIt3.exe".

Please run the check and confirm here that you double-checked the file (or files, if you check both au3361 and au3381, each for x86 and x64, total of 4 files).

Please let's get all these misunderstandings out of the way....

 :ohmy:
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 03:48:57 AM by Atari800xl »

Re: 'under the hood'?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2016, 03:53:27 AM »

vvurat

  • Jr. Chef
  • **
  • Date Registered: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 42
You are misunderstanding me :(

I know what autoit is. Just Lancelot said that this is an open source project and nobody hides anything, if so i want to have source codes of that files if it is possible. Want to see what they do. At least a detailed explaination this does this. And explanation of using them standalone for handmade PE builds.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 03:58:27 AM by vvurat »

Re: 'under the hood'?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2016, 05:14:01 AM »

JFX

  • Code Baker
  • Sr. Chef
  • ****
  • Date Registered: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 889
Why should we share all in source code form  :confused:

All the projects even start upon a closed source builder,
that only runs on a closed source OS.

Our goal is to give people an easy way to create a WinPE, not to teach them how.

Re: 'under the hood'?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2016, 05:57:29 AM »

Lancelot

  • Gena Baker
  • Grand Chef
  • *****
  • Date Registered: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 7237
Just Lancelot said that this is an open source project and nobody hides anything,

Just to clear:
I do not ask Jonathan Benett to provide source code of AutoIT
I do not ask JFX to provide source code of his tools.
... (%1)

Jonathan Benett or JFX share their codes or not, up to them.
Thanks to Jonathan Benett - AutoIT being redistributable,
Thanks to JFX - proving such tools to projects.

Plugins open source, nobody hides anything, you can easily figure out or replicate what they do, with JFX tools and with AutoIT,
A weekend is enough with such valuable open source information, quite easy.

ex: try to replicate BartPE core !

---->
 Here I feel you misunderstand things on other forums,
 some lazy people do not want to understand what JFX tools does or how some plugins works,
 they simply want to replicate without spending a weekend,
   and post gaming to fool some guy to get this task done. (Fish game) (Sazan aranıyor)
     And as you may notice, for years, no one who has knowledge is even fool enough to spend a weekend for such thing.
       (Exception: Aside people who use on 2-3 projects, even 1 is quite rudely without asking permission to JFX ! )
         Guess why these people who has knowledge do not spend such time....
               post gamers....
---->




But since you are a clever guy who do not only want to replicate but understand how things work, you go Further:

If you want to eliminate or replicate JFX tools and AutoIT, if authors do not provide codes:
Than you need to work more time to figure out,
 still it is easier than creating a new one since you have a working example at hand with a provided open source plugin.

ex: we replaced BartPE - pebuilder core with Saydin77 Core,
 it probably took months to Saydin77,
   and even with a ready Saydin77 Core it took us months to develop Gena. Without having source codes of many things......

Still thanks to BartPE , without BartPE it would be quite harder to Saydin77 .

:turtle:

Re: 'under the hood'?
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2016, 06:00:46 AM »

Lancelot

  • Gena Baker
  • Grand Chef
  • *****
  • Date Registered: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 7237
Previous post written before JFX post, I just see JFX post, here is an addition:

Even with an opensource hostos (ReactOS in future), and opensource builder,
JFX, Jonathan Benett .... anyone have right to keep their source closed.

Like I wrote above, If I want to replace AutoIT inside projects, I need to work quite hard.
If I am curious user (who have educational purpose  :wink: :lol: ) and want to to figure out how JFX tools works, I need to work quite hard.
....
Ex: Bart Lagerweij keep his source closed (and undistributable) , Saydin77 created Saydin77 Core and we create Gena to implement....

As JFX wrote:
It would be your task to learn, even with having %99 opensource advantage (compared to %0 BartPE) it is your time.

ex: Bart Lagerweij did not teach us how to build, even with %0 opensource, we learned from pebuilder of Bart Lagerweij and develop further spending quite big time....



Well even projects %100 opensource with all tools and builder, it is now a quite big task to replicate everything with another way.
 With every passing year, development continues to better, with more codes and features, with new projects following windows new editions.... (my old ideas ........ nice to see they are self proving right )

Everything possible, and easier than having all closed source, only requires time of whom who likes to work on.

:turtle:

Re: 'under the hood'?
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2016, 06:20:58 AM »

vvurat

  • Jr. Chef
  • **
  • Date Registered: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 42
I was not think the source code will be shared to. Just try my luck when i heard the term "Open Source". Everything is clear now.

Re: 'under the hood'?
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2016, 06:45:06 AM »

Lancelot

  • Gena Baker
  • Grand Chef
  • *****
  • Date Registered: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 7237
So you fully understand rest of %99 ....

and if all rest of %1 tools open source,
(with plugins already open source with lots of open source tools)
next question would be
"why you use this at this point".....

never ending story  :lol:

ps: To avoid any misunderstanding, please read my posts 2 times, I haven't write such long for a while now.....
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 06:50:19 AM by Lancelot »

Re: 'under the hood'?
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2016, 07:24:14 AM »

vvurat

  • Jr. Chef
  • **
  • Date Registered: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 42
Because that tools are the hearth of PE. You can not build a building without a base. Understanding %99 of rest does not help me. Thats why i am interested. But there is something that if there are closed source stuff how people can ask, improve, the project it is a dilemma. I really did not understand how all the stuff come to here from other topic. It was very fast. Please close the topic. I do not want anything.

Re: 'under the hood'?
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2016, 08:22:13 AM »

Lancelot

  • Gena Baker
  • Grand Chef
  • *****
  • Date Registered: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 7237
Because that tools are the hearth of PE. You can not build a building without a base. Thats why i am interested.
I guess you are asking JFX tools,
Wrong,
No they are not hearth of PE.
One can build both PESE and Gena without any JFX tools by only removing relevant plugins, missing features provided by JFX.



But there is something that if there are closed source stuff how people can ask, improve, the project it is a dilemma.
Nobody have such dilemma for years since the begining !

And it seems you did not read " -----> " part of above post carefully,
 as written on this post, so far you are the only one who ask, others only wanted to replicate, and serious ones already replicated on their projects, lazy ones only posts......
   I still strickly advice you to read above posts again, replies already given.

For your example, With plugin being open source, having JFX task specific tools,
If there is a problem, when reported and it is quickly understood where problem occurs (either by plugin or provided tools)

**
Just another example out of PE but JFX,
 WinNTSetup of JFX is not open source,
   and there is no dilemma on supporting WinNTSetup so far for years......

    Same valid and more easily on JFX tools ...

I really did not understand how all the stuff come to here from other topic. It was very fast. Please close the topic. I do not want anything.
Topic keeps open, there is no need to close.

For the "next" one who ask same thing again, current topic would the best reference topic so far.
 Unlike others, your posts includes more things to ask, and get more replies and info.

 Other lazy ones only complains since they can not replicate which is already provided open source.

:turtle:










edit:
related discussion continued here
http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=1755
to reply 17


+
vvurat is also fine with using closed source PECMD

+
As the general subject of the forum is not to teach people how to build their own PE.
Aah, we're back to the jokes now...?  :wink:

Seriously: As writing understandable posts seems to come so natural to you (no joke this time), I think the better option would be to make a nice HowTo on the subject, maybe not explaining every single detail, but still...
If you really can't see any way to explain, that's not a problem either, in that case we still have our great PE/SE projects for WOW64, which we will then appreaciate even more...

I did that previously. I do not know how much i succeded. I will not do that again. It is very difficult.
http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/143241-portable-windows-7-build-from-winpe-30/

When i building PE i use lots of parameters. There no need to discover America again. For example i compare files with my previously made builds. I copied all same Window7PE files, but need to add more files that exist in windows 10 but not in windows 7, i have looked bare metal chineese PE's, sometimes also looked to winpese scripts. Removed unused files, added my files created had a lots of hard work. Yesterday maybe i had 100 different combination PE boots.If somebody wants to build his own at least he can start my file list after delete or add new ones or investigate registry hiv's. I can not write hundred of pages of tutorials at every new windows version. My only help can be in that way. Thats all i can do in a hundred files and a hundred registry combinations.

vvurat way to share his PE knowledge to public is, providing ready iso,
 which one can work on it and figure out how things works.  :thumbsup:



====>
On http://theoven.org , we share PE knowledge through well organized open source plugins,
 which one can open and read to figure out specific knowledge more easily. Still requires time on complex plugins....
 More important, everybody can reproduce same result during with a build using same source cd,
   where one can improve or make a research Much much more easily than with a ready iso.
     That is the main reason we develop and share projects with public in a "builder+plugin" way.
ex:
One can figure out how to add KoreanIME by checking KoreanIME plugin,
one can figure out how to add an application (ex: like Acronis which sometimes a bit complex to add PE) by checking relevant plugins,
one can figure out how to add a tweak setting or feature by checking relevant plugins.....
one can add/remove files/registry during a build easily..

If one goal is to reproduce a feature of a build on another place ,
 than
   It is up to one to read plugin to figure out
   OR
   It is up to one to inspect a ready iso having such feature (like vvurat) to figure out same feature.
.......

Here we are fine building projects with a builder+plugin way.

:turtle:
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 04:18:08 AM by Lancelot »

 

Powered by EzPortal