Topic: 10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017  (Read 1242 times)

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10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
« on: October 01, 2017, 06:45:50 AM »

Atari800xl

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...
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 03:32:39 PM by Atari800xl »

Re: 10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2017, 07:34:52 AM »

Lancelot

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still same shameless C't  :lol:





edit:
It seems:
P. Siering (c't)
works on all these stuff
https://www.heise.de/forum/c-t/Kommentare-zu-c-t-Artikeln/c-t-Notfall-Windows-2018/forum-389077/
here is older:
https://www.heise.de/forum/c-t/Kommentare-zu-c-t-Artikeln/c-t-Notfall-Windows-2017/forum-370171/
here is old topic here:
http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=775.0

and somehow cause failures during build ?!?!?!
from posts there can be again a server ! which also cause failure for download !!!!
 edit: here is server that does not work: http://ctnotwin18.ct.de - ctnotwin18.ct.de



Maybe P. Siering (c't)  is Mark we know from old times (maybe not ! ),
 and buy that nice sports car.  :lol:
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 02:14:11 PM by Lancelot »

Re: 10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2017, 02:12:00 PM »

Lancelot

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I have a scan, if you want it. They gave you proper credit in the introduction, that's nice...

I do not see
https://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/c-t-Notfall-Windows-2018-3813147.html
Maybe 2 words on paper.....

All I see is  P. Siering (c't) rename Win10PESE to ctnotwin18  !!!!!!
 open a none working server (at least not public I guess)
  add many Apps plugins with German interface folders (directly to project folder)
    open a dedicated forum

I guess I need to work at c't  :lol:

:turtle:

« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 02:12:16 PM by Lancelot »

Re: 10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2017, 04:13:01 PM »

ChrisR

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I will continue to dream, for the nice sports car :sleeping:
To console me, I tell myself that the dream is probably the best time.

They will find one day but for now it seems they are still looking for the donate button :doh7:
They found my mail to ask for my permission and my adress to send me the magazine, a bit later. So, I keep a little hope. 

At the same time, they are not the only, AOMEI did not find the button either for their PEBuilder2.0

Re: 10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2017, 04:47:22 PM »

bob.omb

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Where is the donate button? =)

Re: 10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2017, 04:58:48 PM »

ChrisR

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 :lol: 
Tell them, If you find it :wink:

Re: 10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2017, 01:50:45 AM »

PetePossum

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Hi,

had a look at the project. Nothing really exciting except some special apps like 1 year licensed versions of drive snapshot or speed commander.. They talk about a .NET problem they had last year, where the build process obviously modified .NET paths of the host system you built on. This should be fixed in ctnotwin2018. I have never experienced such issues when I built Win10PESE.

The did not "verschlimmbesser" it ;) It is working OK but as mentioned, I also do not see anything they improved.

As mentioned they gave credit to ChrisR and the other team members, and explicitely mentioned that it's not their tool,

Re: 10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2017, 06:58:18 AM »

Lancelot

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***
remembing old pm I got and replied
I am referring to an old thread:

http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=1454.msg22408#msg22408

You wrote "I see c't did VERY VERY ugly things on Win10PESE. .............................. stupid"

I like to learn – what should we do better on the next run?

Thanks in advance,
Regards,
XXXXXX (accounting for supporting and co-customizing the project the last couple of years)

Hi

First of all, better you open a public topic for c't distribution..


What c't shortly did result with not good working projects (this time Win10PESE)  in passing time.........

In the end, for public benefit, it is obvious c't open topic for its distributions to do better result.
 Instead c't always try to do things itsself and naturally can not deal with bad results.

See You on a topic, where others can comment and discuss for better results on c't distribution.

:turtle:

Every year, a little hope  :lol:

There is even a plugin to properly create a custom zip distribution available on server which seems not used.  :lol:

If I was working in a magazine, and create Win10PESE zip distribution,
 I would open a topic http://theoven.org/index.php?board=36.0 to do things correctly.

   It would be good +1 P. Siering (c't) dealing with some German plugins and projects.
   Instead P. Siering (c't) try to handle all distribution, server, maintance and causing a set of bad result.


+
c't maybe using a bug tool to create server ini cause failure on server




*
Where is the donate button? =)
:lol:


*
They found my mail to ask for my permission and my adress to send me the magazine, a bit later. So, I keep a little hope. 
4 copy of magazine would be better.  :lol:

At the same time, they are not the only, AOMEI did not find the button either for their PEBuilder2.0
I do not know this case.


***
As mentioned they gave credit to ChrisR and the other team members, and explicitely mentioned that it's not their tool,
Maybe I miss, nothing on internet I found given on my previous post. Give us link.





******
Well life goes...... :turtle:

Re: 10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2017, 08:35:49 AM »

petsie

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from posts there can be again a server ! which also cause failure for download !!!!
 edit: here is server that does not work: http:// ctnotwin18.ct.de - ctnotwin18.ct.de

It works well: we are using the download function only for distributing updates not to host the whole project tree.

Re: 10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2017, 08:49:57 AM »

petsie

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They talk about a .NET problem they had last year, where the build process obviously modified .NET paths of the host system you built on. This should be fixed in ctnotwin2018. I have never experienced such issues when I built Win10PESE.

In that case you had not enabled the "complete .NET 2/3/4"-option. The bug had been in the original win10pese for a while and was fixed after fredo61 posted here:

http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=1454.msg22390#msg22390

The issue has also been fixed in the old ctnotwin2017 completely a few weeks after release. We disabled the complete .NET a few days after release.

Re: 10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2017, 09:09:13 AM »

petsie

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Just a few more words on our perspective and on what were are doing:

We start with a snapshot of win10pese. We add and remove things we think are or are not usefull for a recovery system. We talk to several software verndors to get permissions to include their software into the image we're going to distribute. We do intense testing of the kit building with different versions of Windows (7, 8.1, 10, 32 bit, 64 bit, home, pro enterprise). We check with many av software.

We keep this kit running for a while. If something breaks (software vanishing, download addresses moving ...) or we introduced any bugs, we deliver updates for the released kit by our own "update server" (which is just serving updated scripts/ctnotwin18.ct.de in case today). We answer a lot of questions within our forum and by email. I won't post any user counts, but be sure that the kit has a huge user base.

imho: With this in mind it is not a bad idea, to decouple your developments from such a distribution. May be there are better ways to do so. I am open for discussion. In the long run, people who like to hack win10pese and to get further with it, are coming to this forum. So where is the problem?

Re: 10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2017, 06:55:42 AM »

Lancelot

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So where is the problem?

Hi petsie,

The problems happens since you have not open topics during creation of c't package.

*
To demonstrate what you do wrong, I create a c't package here
http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=2255

took 10 days of my free time to inspect your distribution and recreate a package.

ps: You can add Speed Commander 13 and Snapshot easily and recreate this package and put on cd.


*
So where is the problem?

What is wrong:
First plugins (old scripts) you add:

*
They are very old and use old methods that cause troubles.
ex: not working If,%CheckBoxRAM%,Equal,True,RunFromRam
--> you use very old ugly template on your files that only serves reducing quality.
 You probably tell end users "never change any setting" to get these files work.
*
Your files extract files to target and deletes there,
 this only works since we use extracted folders on target,
  but with mounted wim they will have troubles like 7 years before.

*
your downgrading quality of these files have troubles embedded inside.
 that is probably reason behind to try to open a server ?
 but you do not need to.

As you see with .Net and other plugins,
 When problem reported and fixed, we already update plugins quickly on servers

*
Changing location of default plugins ?:
Why ?
to only change folder names of Start Menu ?
If that is the reason, you do not need to.
As you can see from picture of repacked Win10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=2255.0
We already have very German Start Menu

Also what you do cause trouble when updating project,
 Most of all, you cause end user download all Project Apps when updating project from official server.

 that is probably reason behind your trying to open a server, which you do not need to.
and it is ugly you delete project servers from list.

Well If you had opened a topic during package creation, you would have informed.

*
Title=Aufräumen und Energieoptionen einrichten
( Cleanup and energy options )
by deleting
System Tools
Accessories
you only break multilanguage support  :confused:
 which you should not do.
System Tools
Accessories
folders recreated when an application create shortcut , with your "Aufräumen und Energieoptionen einrichten" it only loose multilanguage support.

ps: There is already option available at Optmization plugin, but this is for special usage where end user do not use any System Tools and Accessories StartMenu shortcut.
+
ACSettingIndex
setting already exists at \Tweaks\Power Options
->
Repacked Win10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=2255.0
have additional plugins to avoid such thing
\Downloads\AppYGS\Supplementary\Caffeine
\Downloads\AppYGS\Supplementary\Dont Sleep
This was posted on topics before and plugins already created.
Since you reinvent wheels badl there, you miss these plugins.
+
Registry Editor shortcut creation already exists
ComponentsY\Core\1 System\Registry Editor --> and it is in Windows Official German language
+
your old written scripts have invalid lines like
If,%pCheckBox1%,EQUAL,True,Run,%ScriptFile%,SigCheck

*
Modify Plugins
ex:
Tweaks\Wallpaper
you modify plugins, there is already option "Use Custom Wallpaper" to put your picture,
instead of using provided options, you break plugin
=> result: update of Wallpaper plugin will simply delete your custom wallpaper
==> result: you can not get a proper server adjustment to get over this.

Instead you should use provided method.


Your modify plugins serves to mismatch version of plugins on official servers.

I do not know other plugins that you modify,
 I had seen such ugly things on old c't distributions,
 maybe some have good reasons behind but you do not share reason and solution with public here.


*

from posts there can be again a server ! which also cause failure for download !!!!
 edit: here is server that does not work: http:// ctnotwin18.ct.de - ctnotwin18.ct.de

It works well: we are using the download function only for distributing updates not to host the whole project tree.
Well as you see from
Repacked Win10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=2255.0
you do not need that.

since all plugins have their download button it is easy to update a plugin and ask user to download with green download button. (especially for Apps  plugins)

and you can not distribute Speed Commander 13 and SnapShot on server,
so there is no need to open a server.

*
They talk about a .NET problem they had last year, where the build process obviously modified .NET paths of the host system you built on. This should be fixed in ctnotwin2018. I have never experienced such issues when I built Win10PESE.

In that case you had not enabled the "complete .NET 2/3/4"-option. The bug had been in the original win10pese for a while and was fixed after fredo61 posted here:

http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=1454.msg22390#msg22390

The issue has also been fixed in the old ctnotwin2017 completely a few weeks after release. We disabled the complete .NET a few days after release.

this was replied with:
Hi fredo,

Thanks a lot for this cooking german fix  :great:
Indeed, NET Framework Setup needs to be written in the right place, well seen and well corrected  :thumbsup:
DotNet plugin v27 is on server.


This also proves, when feedback to plugins and projects made right place,
they are fixed quickly and be on server.
ex:
some recent updates:
TreeSize plugin update http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=2233
PowerShell plugin update http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=2250
DirectX plugin update http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=2251
...
--> on critical cases zip distributions also quickly updated.

But you create a forum that is no google-translate friendly and not required at all.
If freedos report here at first, it would be fixed and updated faster.

We could create a German section or topic for c't distribution but you did not ask at all.

Giving example:
https://www.heise.de/forum/c-t/Kommentare-zu-c-t-Artikeln/c-t-Notfall-Windows-2018/download-klappt-nicht/thread-5397742/#posting_31164382
-->
Google Translate:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fforum%2Fc-t%2FKommentare-zu-c-t-Artikeln%2Fc-t-Notfall-Windows-2018%2Fdownload-klappt-nicht%2Fthread-5397742%2F%23posting_31164382&edit-text=
"Ansicht auf Baum-Structur umschalten" --> button do not work
so it become nearly impossible to read what is going on there.
on the other hand our forum engine is more google translate friend
one can easly see all written posts to a translated on a topic
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=en&tl=de&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=theoven.org%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D2234.0&edit-text=

*
Just a few more words on our perspective and on what were are doing:

We start with a snapshot of win10pese. We add and remove things we think are or are not usefull for a recovery system.
Well correct path to do is shown here
RePacked Win10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=2255.0

but you modify project plugins, add plugins improperly... that cause troubles......


We talk to several software verndors to get permissions to include their software into the image we're going to distribute.
Sure,
since you are a company that sell magazine $ , you should do that.
 We only follow license for free distributivity.

We do intense testing of the kit building with different versions of Windows (7, 8.1, 10, 32 bit, 64 bit, home, pro enterprise).
That is useless waste of time,
 since someone reports a problem, it will be fixed on project servers.
  As you wish.

We check with many av software.
That is more useless waste of time.

Yet another false positive
https://www.nirsoft.net/false_positive_report.html
http://TheOven.org/index.php?topic=1803.0
http://TheOven.org/index.php?topic=903.0
http://TheOven.org/index.php?topic=1183.0
http://TheOven.org/index.php?topic=697
http://TheOven.org/index.php?topic=101.msg6185#msg6185
http://TheOven.org/index.php?topic=234.0
http://TheOven.org/index.php?topic=614.0
.....

And a funny false positive I see recently:
http://www.zhornsoftware.co.uk/caffeine/
Quote
AV warning: Annoyingly, some Antivirus products detect the above file as having a virus in it - something called Razy or Spursint.A. It's connected with the new icons added in April 2016. The icon file which I added is clean, but if I build the app with those cool new icons in, it then scans as infected. Building the app with the old icons does not - there is no other difference.

So here's the same download, just without the new icons, if this causes you trouble

**
We keep this kit running for a while. If something breaks (software vanishing, download addresses moving ...) or we introduced any bugs, we deliver updates for the released kit by our own "update server" (which is just serving updated scripts/ctnotwin18.ct.de in case today)
well since this do not work properly through server, you have to create a update package.

On the other hand,
here we update plugins individually,
and project update already get all updated plugins from server and do related updates on project plugins.

What you only serves wasted time, or better say double time.
 Since you only double time we already spend.

*
We answer a lot of questions within our forum and by email. I won't post any user counts, but be sure that the kit has a huge user base.
It is good to get German users feed back with German Language  :thumbsup:

Well it is still unknown if there is something we can do on our side.
It would be much better if we could catch what is going on there on a German section here so we could improve projects and plugins.



imho: With this in mind it is not a bad idea, to decouple your developments from such a distribution. May be there are better ways to do so. I am open for discussion. In the long run, people who like to hack win10pese and to get further with it, are coming to this forum. So where is the problem?
Problem is same with others.
But they are anonymous individuals on internet.
Instead you do same bad things on a c't maganize .?????!!!!!!??????

It would be much better for projects if we could find ways with c't magazine.
but you never come around to develop solutions.

As written on other forum,
https://www.heise.de/forum/c-t/Kommentare-zu-c-t-Artikeln/c-t-Notfall-Windows-2018/download-klappt-nicht/thread-5397742/#posting_31164401

we have continue development on our servers, c't package already VERY old

Sorry für die Verwirrung, aber wir haben nach den Erfahrungen aus den letzten Jahren damit gerechnet, dass es schnell Updates gibt.
-->
Sorry for the confusion, but we have reckoned on the experience from recent years that there are fast updates.

but you try to develop solutiont to troubles you create.

Ich habe schon überlegt, ob ich ein Platzhalter-Update baue, damit dieses Verwirrspiel aufhört ;-)
-->
I have already thought about whether I build a placeholder update, so this confusion stops ;-)

On the other hand,
RePacked Win10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
already have Utils\Update button to update project safe ,secure and quickly with all settings preserved.



**
I only hope
RePacked Win10PESE in German C't magazin #21-2017
http://theoven.org/index.php?topic=2255.0

will give you some idea to do things better,
I hope we see you around on preparation of 19 next year.

This way instead of spending time to fix troubles you create,
 you can create better German tutorials to end users,
  and we can get better feedback to develop projects to better,
   and all result with better user experience on creating projects.  :thumbsup:

:turtle:
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 10:26:01 AM by Lancelot »

 

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