Topic: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP 10/03, ESD 10/05, ISO 10/17)  (Read 1747 times)

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Atari800xl

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I have been playing around with the new RTM for a few days (using UUP files, since Tuesday, provided by MKuba50's excellent php scripts), and today Microsoft released the ESDs (they even call it "RTM", even when they said they wouldn't use that term anymore).
For example (ESD):
Code: [Select]
http://fg.ds.b1.download.windowsupdate.com/d/Upgr/2017/10/16299.15.170928-1534.rs3_release_clientconsumer_ret_x86fre_en-us_1ad866a4a9b80e05103c60aaa62ef57613b9b917.esd
http://fg.ds.b1.download.windowsupdate.com/d/Upgr/2017/10/16299.15.170928-1534.rs3_release_clientconsumer_ret_x64fre_en-us_f6df8c19358335bc05e638b45bb6c6f8078480a4.esd

Downloading the UUPs is very quick now, and even WinNTSetup now supports applying UUP source files directly (thanks JFX!).

I couldn't resist trying to do a Win10PESE build with this source (not UUP, but converted to ISO, of course), I have never tried a non-supported source before, but with the latest PESE release, I did some comparing of the 1703 and 1609 script files, so I decided to just give it a go and see what happens.

Things "kind of" worked, but from the build log I could see that "dispci.dll" was missing, so I didn't expect much... :-)
The PE booted, but there are some serious display problems, so I will give up this pointless experiment and leave it to the Pros...

So just forget that test build, and just consider this as an accouncement of the new 1709 version :-)

The experimenting can begin, and we'll see when the ISOs become available (the bits will not change, though).
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 07:38:06 AM by Atari800xl »

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2017, 01:11:02 PM »

ChrisR

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The experimentation is in progress  :wink:

ila_rendered

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2017, 02:18:42 PM »

Atari800xl

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Most excellent news. Hope they're not giving you too hard a time.
To me, the 6-month Windows 10 release cycle seems a bit much, it doesn't seem like 1709 provides a lot of new stuff, but I'm sure you will be a far better judge of that (eg. ReFS 3.3, I can't tell how significant that is).

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2017, 06:21:00 PM »

bob.omb

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it doesn't seem like 1709 provides a lot of new stuff, but I'm sure you will be a far better judge of that (eg. ReFS 3.3, I can't tell how significant that is).

That actually kind of sucks..  :sad: It is a feature "Removal" not addition.. You will no longer be able to format ReFS partitions by changing the registry and allowing yourself to do so.  This will no longer be possible in ReFS 3.3 - Paving way for the new 'Windows Pro for Workstations" - Which I think will have the system partition as ReFS??, which you will have to pay extra for  :wink:

ReFS 3.3: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4034825/features-that-are-removed-or-deprecated-in-windows-10-fall-creators-up

I currently run ReFS drives with Storage Spaces virtual raid.  Very reliable, and actually out performs hardware raid. Works through usb as well as sata and the pool can be managed. 3-way mirror(You can drop random size drives in any way you can and they get added)  :great: I wonder if we could keep 3.2 or make a script to swap it back? I'll make a thread later on for that.  Changing the registry value in current builds adds the option to the system format > dropdown screen for choosing file system e.g fat32, exFat, NTFS, ReFS, when formatting something.

When ReFS is primetime chkdsk will be obsolete, and you will be able to pull your power cord out in the middle of a system update without messing up your os....

------------------
Enable ReFS formatting in Win10PESE ** Edited to prevent automatic ReFS upgrade - This maintains compatibility of older filesystems with their hosts when accessed with PE.
------------------
Code: [Select]
RegHiveLoad,Tmp_System,%RegSystem%
RegWrite,HKLM,0x4,Tmp_System\ControlSet001\Control\MiniNT,AllowRefsFormatOverNonmirrorVolume,1
RegWrite,HKLM,0x4,Tmp_System\ControlSet001\Control\FileSystem,RefsDisableLastAccessUpdate,1
RegWrite,HKLM,0x4,Tmp_System\ControlSet001\Control\FileSystem,RefsDisableVolumeUpgrade,1
RegHiveUnLoad,Tmp_System

« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 04:51:45 PM by bob.omb »

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2017, 05:10:12 AM »

APT

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...
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 04:29:40 AM by APT, Reason: retraction »

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 06:44:48 PM »

s1ave77

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@bob.omb A>lthough it might suck, it's understandable move to position Pro against the new Pro for Workstation SKU, the latter supports all mentioned features natively. Might be worth a try.

It's actually a Pro with changes to support 4 CPU sockets, 2 TB RAM, persistant memory and REFS.

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2017, 04:03:13 AM »

bob.omb

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Yes but who knows how the change is going to affect PE builds.  There is a possibility pro for workstations wont be able to be ported to PE if the filesystem does happen to be ReFS on the system partition.  If that's the case 1703 will be the last version able to manipulate ReFS which makes it the last universal ISO.  We'll see what happens =)

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2017, 07:05:27 AM »

ChrisR

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Only from some readings, nothing tested.
With ReFS 3.2,  it does not seem possible to read a 3.3 ReFS volume
So downgrade to ReFS 3.2 is not the way to go. A Windows 1709 with ReFS 3.3 volumes would be unreadable.
For the Creation, format ability, as written by s1ave77, we need to use, Win10 Pro Workstation or enterprise.
Perhaps the change can be ported in a Win10PE build with another edition (productpolicy?)

By cons, I wonder if there is a possibility (registry) not to Auto Upgrade volumes to 3.3
This would be a concern if, using a WinPE 1709 with ReFS 3.3, the host volumes were upgraded.
They would become unreadable then in the host OS.

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2017, 09:35:10 AM »

bob.omb

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 :ohmy: This is dangerous I need to update my release immediately.. :ohmy: (fix below) if someone uses current Win10PE on Server 2016 or Win8 machine with ReFS volumes (Those use 3.1)they will break the volumes. (You may want to add this line to core builds registry even if you don't enable formatting just to be safe)

** This seems like a bad idea on Microsofts part, forced upgrades without the knowledge of the user for any existing ReFS systems with 0 compatibility, only conversion.. 

By cons, I wonder if there is a possibility (registry) not to Auto Upgrade volumes to 3.3

Looks like there's a key in current builds that prevents upgardes from 3.1 to 3.2 from automatically happening. Hopefully this key will still be available in 3.3

Registry to prevent upgrade. It needs to be set before connecting.
Code: [Select]
RegWrite,HKLM,0x4,Tmp_System\ControlSet001\Control\FileSystem,RefsDisableVolumeUpgrade,1

Source: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_files/connecting-refs-v231-volume-to-windows-10-build/8bb1cdcb-fbf8-4c52-b763-bb4714613525?auth=1

I updated the codebox in Reply #3, to add this line in case anyone doesn't scroll down this far to see the addition. 

« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 04:40:59 PM by bob.omb »

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2017, 03:00:30 AM »

Lancelot

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Following things related to ReFS

I feel It will be useful to add all ReFS related things to a plugin:

Added new plugin to server:
\Downloads\DriversY\ReFS

ps: not related but also added these:
\Downloads\ComponentsY\Tweaks Explorer\Exp IconSize
\Downloads\AppYGS\Supplementary\Tweaks\DesktopOK

:turtle:

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2017, 09:57:18 AM »

bob.omb

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I have a little concern.. Win10PE is able to access ReFS and "Read/Write" even older volumes,  WITHOUT upgrading, yet autoupgrade is set default by MS,  It can do this whether we enable ReFS "Formatting" or not.

This means any Win10PESE build ever will break an ReFS drive(made with Server 2012/8.1/**Server 2016**) by default

Was thinking....Maybe,
Code: [Select]
RegWrite,HKLM,0x4,Tmp_System\ControlSet001\Control\FileSystem,RefsDisableVolumeUpgrade,1

Should be hardcoded in build??? And optional checkbox on ReFS plugin shoud be to "Enable Automatic Upgrade of ReFS Volumes" (With a warning that ReFS isn't backwards compatible)???

This would need to be used if you decide to go that route.
Code: [Select]
RegWrite,HKLM,0x4,Tmp_System\ControlSet001\Control\FileSystem,RefsDisableVolumeUpgrade,0

Even though this is the way windows normally works, PE users are MUCH MORE likely to attempt to access volumes on other systems.

BTW - Not sure if you want to hardcode, maybe not, but thanks for putting so much time into this,  I know you are busy but you've been doing a lot here thank u.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 04:47:25 PM by bob.omb »

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2017, 12:00:00 PM »

Lancelot

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Hi bob.omb

updated
DriversY\ReFS
I feel more informative and secure now.  :wink:

*
updated
Build\"Project Medicine" plugin with line:
Code: [Select]
RegWrite,HKLM,0x4,Tmp_System\ControlSet001\Control\FileSystem,RefsDisableVolumeUpgrade,1
to protect end users.

=>
I guess ReFS is feature of Win8 and later,
So I update both plugin to add ReFS registry to Win8SE, Win8.1SE, Win10PESE and later ..

Fix me if required.

**
@bob.omb
Tip:
"exact and secure update" preserves settings on plugins.
just make sure you have the latest
Utils\Plugin Manager
and
Utils\Update XXXX (Exact and Secure)
from server
(small green download button on both plugins)

:turtle:

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2017, 12:12:38 PM »

bob.omb

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ila_rendered

Windows 8 no ReFS - Starts at 8.1 - Yes would be wise to put in 8.1 thru future builds unless there's a reason to switch it back on. (This feature is intended to auto upgrade volumes when you migrate them to newer systems, in that sense it works, in the PE world it just breaks stuff)

Ok so per the chart above:

Win8.1 through Win10 v1607 *Breaks* Server 2012 ReFS by default (No ReFS on win 8 only 8.1)
Win10 v1703 *Breaks* Server 2012, Win8.1, Win10 =<1607, and Server2016 ReFS by default  <====This is where it starts to get dangerous, at 1703

So it was a small chance before but starting at 1703 its a much bigger chance of breaking something..

That is exact info.

This would be a concern if, using a WinPE 1709 with ReFS 3.3, the host volumes were upgraded.
They would become unreadable then in the host OS.

Thank you for pointing this out ChrisR.  Is a bigger concern than we thought.  Starting with 1703.  *Fixed Thanks Lancelot! :great:
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 03:49:48 PM by bob.omb »

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2017, 12:35:34 PM »

Lancelot

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Thanks bob.omb  :thumbsup:

updated both plugin to run Win8.1SE Win10PESE and later
DriversY\ReFS
Build\"Project Medicine"

:turtle:

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2017, 08:26:14 PM »

红毛樱木

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What does "Explorer.exe" need in 1709 ?

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2017, 03:33:01 AM »

ChrisR

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I tested last night ReFS, there is no worries in Win10PE.
As it is and without registry addition, Volumes with an older ReFS version are not Upgraded and keep Read and Write ability.
By cons, a ReFS 3.3 volume (windows 1709) appears in Raw, in Win10PE 15063 which support ReFS 3.2 maxi.

ila_rendered

Otherwise, I had no success with the previous registry keys for the optional creation or format ability in PE.

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2017, 10:56:03 AM »

bob.omb

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I tested last night ReFS, there is no worries in Win10PE.

Otherwise, I had no success with the previous registry keys for the optional creation or format ability in PE.

Great!

Side note: ReFS formatting works perfectly fine with the registry keys provided

« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 10:57:28 AM by bob.omb »

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2017, 12:41:30 PM »

ChrisR

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Yes, with 15063, it works fine but I do not have ReFS proposed with 16299.15 and Format /fs:ReFS does not work


Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2017, 02:13:52 PM »

bob.omb

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Yes, with 15063, it works fine but I do not have ReFS proposed with 16299.15 and Format /fs:ReFS does not work

Are you just confirming this for regular pro edition? Or is this with [01] 07en-US x64 10.0.16299.15 Windows 10 Pro for Workstations | ProfessionalWorkstation ??

From my understanding there will be no keys needed in ProW (except to prevent auto upgrade, which you are saying may not happen) - I am converting ESD to ISO now and checking normal install's ReFS behavior for ProW...

I always want to run current releases but starting to wonder what is involved in porting 3.3 back to 1703.(Most likely not possible)  Having a USB you can boot and access drives on a dead machine is a long time feature of PE would be a shame if can't be incorporated into build for ReFS and MS puts a wall between some of us and our data...Sorry for so much ReFS in this thread it seems to be the biggest change
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 02:58:09 PM by bob.omb »

Re: Windows 10 1709 "RTM" build 16299.15 is out (UUP and ESD - ISO to come)
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2017, 10:20:45 PM »

JFX

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Seems to be all about ProductPolicy.

ProfessionalWorkstation has FileSystems-ReFs-Enabled set to 1.
Server has FileSystems-ReFs-Enabled and FileSystems-ReFsV1-Enabled set.

 

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