Topic: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8  (Read 20679 times)

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Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« on: February 22, 2013, 11:14:33 PM »

Atari800xl

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Friends,

Until now, I used Win7PESE on USB. I have a testPC with a SATA disk, on it are 3 primary partitions. I boot W7/W8/XP from it (using Grub4Dos, which hides the partitions from eachother). As it is a testPC, I do lots of reinstalls etc. With Win7PESE, I delete the 3 primary partitions all the time, recreate them at will, etc. After creating them, I assign one as C:, format it, make it active, use WinNTSetup to install an OS (W7/W8/XP). Works great!

Now, after making a beautiful new Gena build, I notice some changes that I didn't expect:
(1) After booting Gena from USB, all primary (SATA) partitions on the testPC can be read perfectly well, no problems there.
(2) Entering diskmanagement and deleting any primary partition isn't a problem either.
(3) When I want to create a new partition in the empty space (primary, no letter, ntfs, quick format), I get this: "The operation did not complete because the partition or volume is not enabled. To enable the partition or volume, restart the computer."

After reading up on this error, I'm not sure exactly what causes this. Have you guys seen this before? Is it XP-related (don't believe I saw it before on a non-PE system) or does it have something to do with imdisk?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 12:12:30 PM by Atari800xl »

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2013, 01:24:07 AM »

Galapo

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It's been a while since I used DiskManagement in PE. I tend to use Paragon HDM 9.5 SE under Gena.

What happens when you reboot? Can you then create the new partition?

Also, what source did you build from?

Regards,
Galapo.

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2013, 01:43:11 AM »

Atari800xl

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- Diskmanagement should work just fine for these tasks in PE (use it all the time in normal XP, and in Win7PESE, Win8PESE)
- After reboot, we're in the exact same position (hey, it's PE!) (Will test again to be sure)
- Source = MSDN XPSP3, same source I always use.

Thanks for the suggestions, but I believe it has to be something specific to PE-XP/ Gena/ Imdisk/ SATA drivers/ ??

Any more suggestions?

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2013, 01:45:35 AM »

Lancelot

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I use "Active@ Partition Manager"  :cool:

besides, as far as I remember,
 disks created by "Disk Management" of nt6x may have troubles with "Disk Management" of nt5x ?!
  I can not be specific about this subject ...

There is a related topic here
"You cannot install Windows XP successfully after you use Windows Vista or Windows PE 2.0 to create partitions on a hard disk"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931760

to avoid such trouble where possible,
Win7PESE had this settings before, but now it does not ( I guess it is lost )  ?!?!?!

Code: [Select]
RegHiveLoad,Tmp_System,%RegSystem%
RegWrite,HKLM,0x4,Tmp_System\ControlSet001\Services\vds\Alignment,LessThan4GB,0
RegWrite,HKLM,0x4,Tmp_System\ControlSet001\Services\vds\Alignment,Between4_8GB,0
RegWrite,HKLM,0x4,Tmp_System\ControlSet001\Services\vds\Alignment,Between8_32GB,0
RegWrite,HKLM,0x4,Tmp_System\ControlSet001\Services\vds\Alignment,GreaterThan32GB,0
RegHiveUnLoad,Tmp_System

ps:
as far as I know, this registry setting is not special to nt6, it also exists with nt5,
 and also exists with Gena - "Other Tweaks" for 2k3 builds where vds allignment used.....
 (but I could not figure out why this used with nt5 .... )

+
Gena\Drivers\4 Storage\"GPTSupport XP 32bit"
maybe also helps this situation ? or not ? one need to test  :wink:

**
anyway,
I do not have pre-nt6 formated disks in my real life,
 and since I read above link I advice all friends to prepare their personal disks with Gena first,
  and be ready to use third party..


*****
maybe your trouble related to what I wrote, maybe not, only sharing "one more suggestion"  :thumbsup:
let us know ?

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2013, 02:28:22 AM »

JFX

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I use "Acronis Disk Director"  :cool:

besides, as far as I remember,
 disks created by "Disk Management" of nt6x may have troubles with "Disk Management" of nt5x ?!
  I can not be specific about this subject ...
Yes, XP Disk  Management sometimes deletes logical partitions with NT6.x alignment.

BTW: Be careful with GPT support of Gena, it doesn't solve the 2 TB limit.

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2013, 02:55:06 AM »

Lancelot

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BTW: Be careful with GPT support of Gena, it doesn't solve the 2 TB limit.

There is an update for 2 TB limit
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/919117

I guess it is easy to make a plugin for 2k3 builds ?!?!
how to add this to Gena-XP with 2k3 disk.sys is a question !??!
time time....
maybe you have time to use your "Golden Eyes" for that  :grin:
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 02:56:05 AM by Lancelot »

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2013, 03:05:38 AM »

JFX

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Plugin for 2K3 builds should be no problem, but don't think it will help for XP.

Anyway if I have some time, I check this out.

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2013, 03:06:30 AM »

Lancelot

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Thanks  :grin:

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2013, 06:05:26 AM »

Atari800xl

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Thanks for all your replies. As I said, I used Win7PESE diskmanagement before, and that always works OK. I create 3 primary partitions, and install XP, W7 and W8 on them (1 at a time, each time: create, format, assign C:, make active).

When I look at your replies, I will stick to W7PESE for now to create 3 partitions like this, until I learn more about everything. I was just wondering why it didn't work with "peXP" (Gena).

I have used other tools before, incl. Disk Director, but I've had problems with it. I know these problems could as well have existed "between keyboard and chair" (=me), but still...

... so there's more studying and experimenting to do. I'm still enjoying it though, as long as you guys are so helpful and friendly!  :great:

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2013, 07:06:53 AM »

Atari800xl

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I would like to add:

Thanks for explaining that there is indeed a difference in the ways of partitioning. For me, it's not so much that I insist on getting it working this way from (pe-)XP, but more that I can remember that there is a difference. I already made a little comparison table between Gena/Win7PESE/Win8PESE (build times, boot times, RAM usage, etc.), so now I will add this note about diskmanagement. Of course, I will also try to learn as much as I can...

For me, the different PE systems are indeed a lot of Fun, but also I keep them all around for different types of PC's I am (and will be) working on. I love fixing up old PCs/ laptops, a lot of them are still in production, others are kind of "museum pieces".

So if an older PC can only use Gena (from CD), I know that the best thing to do is to let Gena (xp-diskmanagement) partition the disk (the whole disk), that way there will hopefully be no inconsistencies between OS's/ alignments, etc.

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2013, 10:06:11 AM »

Lancelot

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I have used other tools before, incl. Disk Director, but I've had problems with it. I know these problems could as well have existed "between keyboard and chair" (=me), but still...
don't push hard to your self,
  "Acronis Disk Director" requires some tricks to run nice  :thumbsup: (as in all Acronises... )
  and don't forget, JFX has Golden Touchs on things he uses  :wink:

That is the reason I like "Active@ Partition Manager" , small, portable, easy, free, UpToDate and enough to me,
 (me: for my "prepare empty disk to use" task  :cool: , I do not much use for anything else .... )

"Partition Wizard Home" being my previous favorite, but was bigger and nearly (not fully) portable

completing list:
Galapo' "Paragon HDM"  ( +  my 2 older favorite "Paragon Partition Manager" )
and I guess JonF's favorite "EASEUS Partition Master"


WhatEver you use as 3rd party,
 be sure you are using an uptodate (aware nt6 - vista , made after nt6 - vista) disk management to avoid troubles ;)
  ex: do not use old "Swiss Knife"  :wink:

When I look at your replies, I will stick to W7PESE for now to create 3 partitions like this, until I learn more about everything. I was just wondering why it didn't work with "peXP" (Gena).
I would advice opposite if you are preparing a new disk from ground 0

So if an older PC can only use Gena (from CD), I know that the best thing to do is to let Gena (xp-diskmanagement) partition the disk (the whole disk), that way there will hopefully be no inconsistencies between OS's/ alignments, etc.
conclusion is to me a bit wrong,
 let's say
  "Don't use xp diskmanagement (either via Gena or any XP)" on disks you do not know how prepared (or you know prepared with nt6x).
   and on this cases use any uptodate 3rd party disk management tools with Gena (that is the reason I made summary above ;) and we provide most of them uptodate on project servers...).


and if you are a "home user", capable to prepare your disks before installing OS,
 better use "Gena" or "any XP" at first place as os,
  when preparing disks. (either with diskmanagement or 3rd party) to avoid inconsistency troubles.
    (that is what I do to prepare 2 w7 pc all runing nicely so far...)
or
use Win7PESE - Win8PESE "any nt6x" having above vds settings to avoid inconsistency troubles.
 ps: here is a VDS plugin for \Components\ http://www.sendspace.com/file/014dck


ps: I do not think "normal" home user will notice any performance difference,
 and "not-normal" home users knows what they are doing   :whistling: (home server users  :w00t: )

 :smile:

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2013, 10:13:57 AM »

Lancelot

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@JFX,

You know (much much better than me....) 2k3 DiskManagement powerfull than XP,
 and all stuff about this alligment inconsistency on internet refering to XP even on ms site,
  but refering to XP mostly means NT5.x (XP+2k3),  sometimes means XP NT5.1 (only XP) !!!!

I wonder if you can check what happens with Gena-2k3 DiskManagement on a nt6x prepared disk (I guess it is ok to call "sector2048 aligned disk" ? )

also above vds plugin/codes maybe useful on your tests, if you like to take the task Mr. Hunt.  :cool:
 :smile:

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2013, 10:18:59 AM »

Atari800xl

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That is the reason I like "Active@ Partition Manager" , small, portable, easy, free, UpToDate and enough to me
Thanks, I was just wondering if it was portable and free. Sounds good!
I will try it right now, I'll let you know!
Thanks, thanks, thanks everybody!!! :thumbsup:

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2013, 10:21:31 AM »

Lancelot

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I will try it right now, I'll let you know!
Launch button on some plugins (where available) naturally indicates portable, and easy to test what application is  :cool:

See You
:ymca:

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2013, 10:46:43 AM »

Atari800xl

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OK, you gave me hardly any time to test it  :smile:
I downloaded Activate@ Partition Manager, installed it, saw that it was portable, put the .exe on usb, rebooted with Gena, checked the previously deleted partition (partition 1, with 2 other primary partitions also on the hd), so far so good (actually, pretty perfect up til now). Then tried creating a new primary partition. Noticed that all sorts of little extra "unused space" pieces were occurring. Also, couldn't assign letter C: to it (even though the letter was free). (Another partition suddenly got drive letter 42139923!!!?) Rebooted, Grub4dos couldn't find the 3 primary partitions anymore. Hmmm, something not quite right here. Please give me some more time to do (a lot) more testing with this one. Thanks for tipping me on this program, though!
(Rebooted with Win8PESE, made a new primary partition in unused space using W8diskmgmt, everything was OK again).

Note: I did a seperate download, not a Gena plugin, because if this tool is useful to me, I plan to use it in a lot of other places as well...

« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 10:49:45 AM by Atari800xl »

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2013, 11:08:48 AM »

Lancelot

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Another tip:
Apps plugins mostly have files distributed by provider (blabla-setup.exe) where there is a way to extract from it,
 (mainly thanks to innosetup and innounp)
  advantages:
   + ease updating plugins
   + one have setup.exe at hand to install if desires ;) along with launch button that extracts ready for personal portable usages

sadly I could not find a way to extract Active@ Partition Manager  setup.exe ;)


I will follow your test results  :thumbsup: you know I am not pc-tech , only following inputs to understand big picture  :smile:

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2013, 06:32:18 PM »

gbrao

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i'm surprised no one mentioned PartitionGuru Free ( http://www.eassos.com/partitionguru/free-download.php ).

my fave right now. feature packed, just 11mb installed size. there is a standalone g4d bootable img ( http://sites.google.com/site/webuploads7373/PartitionGuru420FreeDOS.ima.gz )

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2013, 10:37:35 PM »

Atari800xl

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Thanks gbrao, will try that one as well. Of course, I will do some thorough testing, so that will take a while.

My starting point is: "For multiple OS's on primary partitions, hidden from eachother, best way is to use Win7/8PESE diskmanagement to make the partitions and use JFX's WinNTSetup to do the OS installs".

So until proven otherwise, this is a working solution (the one I used for years). Thank you all so far.

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2013, 11:23:29 AM »

Lancelot

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Yes gbrao,

we are sharing what we personally use,
your precious is "PartitionGuru Free"  :thumbsup:

PartitionGuru Free plugin (x86/x64) already on servers  :thumbsup: along with some others,
I guess you can add BootIce to the list, for tasks prepare/partition disk  :wink:
and more....

*
My starting point is: "For multiple OS's on primary partitions, hidden from eachother, best way is to use Win7/8PESE diskmanagement to make the partitions and use JFX's WinNTSetup to do the OS installs".

So until proven otherwise,

from your point of view, current topic proven otherwise  :smile:
what I do (really) :  best way is to use Gena diskmanagement to prepare disks / partitions  :lol:
only joking, there is no "perfect" way, only some basic info one should know.

To me best conclusion should be:
 one should know what he/she is doing and aware ms policy change on disk management  :wink:
  than it does not matter what he/she use , PE1234... or linux or ....  :wink:

let us know your test results  :thumbsup:

Re: Diskmanagement differences peXP(Gena) and PE7/8
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2013, 06:13:29 PM »

anshad

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Hi Lancelot

XP PE Disk management partition creation issue is not related to the NT6.X partition alignement. I was already aware of this problem and since have been using Partition Wizard  to create partitions from Gena .

 This issue is not only in Gena but also in other PE1s also including infamous Indian Warez disk "H" and Chinese PEs. I am not sure about BartPE .

Edit:
It appears that this problem existed since the time of BartPE. There are topics over this on some forums but no one is able to found an exact solution yet.
 http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=15229
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 08:13:56 PM by anshad »

 

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