Topic: Win81pese feedback and Windows setup.  (Read 944 times)

Win81pese feedback and Windows setup.
« on: January 08, 2014, 08:45:14 AM »

halikus

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I found the new builder and tried it out.  Goodbye Win8\8.1 frankenbuild Pe's i was working on :)  It worked much better than i anticipated.  After a few builds, heres my feedback.  I'm just throwing out the lingering thoughts and bugs i found after my build. 

The resulting wim is fast as hell.
pre config 5 says windows 8 install.wim rather than Win8.1.
Every Win8 app i tried worked, but i updated the DART script and files to 8.1.
Using the same apps, overlay and drivers as Win8 pe the win8.1 pe is actually smaller (33 meg smaller, 332 meg), even though the source GA1 boot.wim i used was 40 meg larger than the Win8 source.
No user account picture when booting to desktop.

Win 8.1 RTM Pro works as a source.
Win 8.1 GA1 Rollup Pro (VL wim, updated boot.wim) works as a source.  This is maybe the better source to use (albiet a little trickier to find) as it has an updated boot.wim (30 meg larger).

Heres a few features i figure could benefit users with minimal work on the dev side.

The possability to use a common (selectable name and location ie: DVD:\boot\WinPE.cd) tagfile for Win8.1.cd, Win8.cd and Win7.cd so OCD people like me with MANY boot.wims can have a cleaner DVD root on impossibly large AIO usbs.

The possability to hide the "audio service is not running" icon in the taskbar if no audio drivers are installed\found.

The possability to add the option to apply a hotfix msu?  There are often a few integrateable hotfixes for bootable media.

Now, the windows setup portion...
WinPEs are essentially for installing an OS, or servicing one offline.  I understand the Oven tends to lean towards the offline servicing aspect of WinPE as it is otherwise unavailable, wich is also why i use it.  Many people i have referred your builder to though through the years notice the lack of Windows setup support and complained to me about it.  If it was a matter of running a setup.exe manually it's not a big deal, but i noticed your builders completely strip out the Windows setup portion or the WinPE.  By adding a script that has the choice to keep or remove the setup files will appease all users of a WinPE for whatever the task; servicing or install.  Add a desktop shortcut for Windows setup to x:\sources\setup.exe and as long as the user has DVD:\sources\boot.wim (the winbuilderPE), install.wim, and the same setup.exe as the shortcut starts (in the winpe) the install will work for Win 8\8.1.  Add the sources\liscence files from a Win7 boot.wim and Windows 7 will install with a Win8 family boot.wim.  There are other things one could do like using an ei.cfg in the sources folder, a custom autounattend.xml gui that implements a key and credentials, etc, but the main problem i find people run into is the x64 WinPE not working on an all in one usb\dvd.  This is mainly due to there being a "driver not found" error caused by the x64 setup.exe not being the same file as the x86 one on the DVD.  This is easily solved by placing an x64 setup.exe renamed to 81x64.exe in boot.wim:\sources\ and DVD:\sources and then having the winpe shortcut run x:\sources\81x64.exe.  Its just a thought, i have a wonderful gui i use.  The way i see, as Win 8.1 boot.wims seem to be backwards compatible i only need a win8.1pe x86\x64 and a GenaXP and should be able to service, repair, install, fix, refresh, any Windows build in BIOS or EFI, old system or new, and as long as the WinPEs are under 300 meg can even be substituted for winRE.wim in install.wim.


Re: Win81pese feedback and Windows setup.
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2014, 09:51:34 AM »

Lancelot

  • Gena Baker
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  • Date Registered: Sep 2010
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Hi halikus,

replying all would require another novel to write  :smile:

Assuming, since you write long, you can read long:

Only small things:

*
please report/ask ONE BY ONE, many of what you wrote will naturally be forgotten (well if it is already your goal, that is another matter) ,
 keep in mind, hoby time is limited, none of us spend 7/24 on projects .
  you can better help small fixes best by providing code changes (linexxx to linexxxx ...)
*
naming is important,
new builder -> new project
*
Better you create a plugin about what you wrote on win setup.exe things, you already know all details, what left is spending some time and sharing what you create  :thumbsup:

ex: "audio service is not running" thing you ask and setup.exe things and ..... , write a plugin about what you request, share with us, with all  :thumbsup:
If you write a nice plugin on such things, it would be in project as default  :thumbsup:
Share such plugins around: http://theoven.org/index.php?board=31
*
We have not seen your many friends around  :wink:
 I hope they not only have ideas but also have will to produce and share.
   I also have lots of ideas  :lol:

Work on your ideas (possibilities), produce some plugins when you succeed, share and things will grow  :thumbsup:

****
Many seems to forget that,
 We are not commercial at any means (like many others),
  We do not spend 7/24 about all things you see around,
    We have far away from such things by having professions that absolutely away from such things.
     (As a result no advertisement things around, as well as we do not (can not) follow all requests besides appreciate provided plugins)



Things goes here with
1: By our work on our limited hoby time about things we like to focus on.
ex:
Chris like to focus on project cores and things related to them.
JFX like to focus on how things works and feedback Chris on core related things
I like keep feedback on forum (I wish I have more time to work on Gena and General feature development, well posting feedback around also gets lots of time)
Galapo like to keep feedback on forum server (with his very limited time, I am sure he would like to work more on things if he had more time)
2: Short Feedbacks/updates (some short but very bullseye ) by good people on such core related bugs/fixes.
3: Additional Features that comes from people, mostly as plugins  :wink:
As I had written, all things around are hobby with limited time, nobody should expect us to bring all ideas alive quickly.
ex: I feel you can write good plugins that would bring your ideas alive, and gladly when you share not only your friends and all people would benefit. Just spend some time to learn plugin writing and things, it is easier than you can imagine, only requires time  :thumbsup: :great:




We only use time efficiently, hand to hand, and move forward ,
 even slowly since hobby with small time :turtle:
  but obviously we do not circle at all  :wink:.


I know I did not reply all things,
 maybe not what you expect at all,
  but I hope you get better picture why things you like and complain are in the way they are so far. :turtle:



See You around
:turtle:

Re: Win81pese feedback and Windows setup.
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2014, 10:28:40 AM »

Atari800xl

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  • Date Registered: Feb 2013
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Halikus, nice to see you back here, I'm sure I don't fully understand your point, but it's very interesting to read anyway. Please could you tell me why JFX's WinNTSetup does not suit your needs? I use it all the time with 7PESE/ 8PESE/ 8.1SE. I'm sure you know this program, could you elaborate a bit on why this does not suit your needs? Thanks!
(The last time I heard from you was on MDL, when you talked about Acronis 2014 and 8PESE, which script did you use?)

Lancelot, what a special poetic writing style you have... I always wonder which country you're from (don't tell me! It will ruin my fantasy of you riding the big turtle!) Still, your profile lists your language as English, but I still get some eastern vibe? Nevertheless, please never change...  :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 10:31:10 AM by Atari800xl »

Re: Win81pese feedback and Windows setup.
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2014, 02:32:02 PM »

ChrisR

  • Moderator, Win7PE SE Baker
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  • Date Registered: Mar 2011
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Hi Halikus,

Nice to see you around, and thank you for your feedback :thumbsup:
Good or bad, these are returns and contributions that allow improvements

It is a little late  :sleeping:, I'll read you tomorrow, if free time allows.


Re: Win81pese feedback and Windows setup.
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2014, 09:23:48 PM »

Lancelot

  • Gena Baker
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  • Date Registered: Sep 2010
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please never change...  :thumbsup:
Nice to hear such a good thing, it is both honor and deeply touched my heart.

With your words,
 I surprisingly notice,  (reason of current long post)
 my cousin and my girlfriend also says this a lot this year.
 (only 2/3 people I am very close in real life).

Although it is hard to figure out where light is,
 With the nicest tip from Shakespeare:
     (I had my own words with exact meaning before knowing Shakespeare, but Shakespeare sure says better  :lol: )
     ps: Critical tips about life ---goto---> Shakespeare ; Critical tips about windows ---goto--> JFX  :lol:

Quote
And enterprises of great pitch and moment,
With this regard their Currents turn awry,
And lose the name of Action.

With my words  :wink:
(which I still use in my social life  :cool: )
 Don't let thoughts lead you be a bad man,
  When time comes to decide, act, etc.
   Look to things from your pure child ages, light is there  :thumbsup:
    Let this child decide, and your experience walk  :turtle:
 




Short version of all above:
Thanks for this very nice words  :cool:


        As a principal
Always try to walk to the light :turtle:
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 09:24:10 PM by Lancelot »

Re: Win81pese feedback and Windows setup.
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2014, 12:18:58 PM »

ChrisR

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Always try to walk to the light :turtle:
This is probably why I prefer the summer, the light is more bright :lol:
It rained all day here, do I need to turn on the light?
I reread your previous post and it has enlightened me :thumbsup: do not change anything or not too much  :wink:

Re: Win81pese feedback and Windows setup.
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2014, 12:31:02 PM »

ChrisR

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pre config 5 says windows 8 install.wim rather than Win8.1.
Done, it says Win8 or Win8.1 now  :smile:

The possability to hide the "audio service is not running" icon in the taskbar if no audio drivers are installed\found.
Done  :thumbsup: The Audio Systray Icon is no longer shown if the audio script is not selected. It was removed by removing the copy of SndVolSSO.dll in Explorer script. It is only used in audio script now.

The possability to use a common (selectable name and location ie: DVD:\boot\WinPE.cd) tagfile for Win8.1.cd, Win8.cd and Win7.cd so OCD people like me with MANY boot.wims can have a cleaner DVD root on impossibly large AIO usbs.
Not done yet, but it should not be too complicated to add a TagFile Win7.cd, Win8.cd or Win8.1.cd in boot folder, I can understand why.

The possability to add the option to apply a hotfix msu?  There are often a few integrateable hotfixes for bootable media.
Apply a hotfix msu should be achievable, I believe, with some adaptation of the "Install Packages" script of Win8pese.
Not a priority, I keep for later unless you want to adapt it.
Otherwise, Win81SE must be able to use a Windows 8.1 with integrated hotfix.

Now, the windows setup portion...
I think indeed that it is good to have to have a script, tool for installing Windows in PESE.
Even if it remains a base and everyone is free to add these own apps.
But of course, I think to WinNTSetup for that.
You did not answer to Atari800xl, on the benefits of your tool or what does not suit you.
With your knowledge on installing and with your tool box, you could easily create a script. It is not so complicated, PC Packed in Utils folder is a good start and we can help, if needed.
Or maybe you can write a small tutorial, ...
If it's just a shortcut to setup.exe (with search Drive) rather than launch it through explorer, I do not really see the point but for sure you think more than this.


Re: Win81pese feedback and Windows setup.
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2014, 12:57:19 PM »

ChrisR

  • Moderator, Win7PE SE Baker
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Using the same apps, overlay and drivers as Win8 pe the win8.1 pe is actually smaller (33 meg smaller, 332 meg), even though the source GA1 boot.wim i used was 40 meg larger than the Win8 source.
Just a small note on a minimum building in Win8.1SE
Here are a list of the scripts selected for a minimum build With explorer shell and the ability to execute some external apps in usb.
Compression maximum was selected in PostConfig

Code: [Select]
Main Configuration
Images configuration

Retrieve Tools
0 - PreConfig
1 - Copy Files
2 - Shell & Config
5 - WoW64 Basic
9 - Autorun
CdDrive - X: - Y:
Retrieve More Localized Info

0 - Pecmd Loader
1 - Explorer Shell
StartIsBackPlus

Windows Driver Foundation
Wallpaper
Themes

Optimizations
1 - Pins
PostConfig
Create ISO

x86 boot.wim ~= 186 Mb
With Network ~20 Mb added, With MMC ~4Mb added, ...

x64 boot.wim ~= 273 Mb
With Network ~23 Mb added, With MMC ~4Mb added, ...

In PE Build Type, there is ~14Mb added for "Refresh your PC" and "Reset your PC" options of the recovery environment.

Re: Win81pese feedback and Windows setup.
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2014, 01:16:24 PM »

Lancelot

  • Gena Baker
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Just a small note on a minimum building in Win8.1SE
...

with sum up with previous similar minimum notes on this "small case"
(which comes around time to time...)
FAQ  :wink:

:turtle:

Re: Win81pese feedback and Windows setup.
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2014, 11:20:55 PM »

ChrisR

  • Moderator, Win7PE SE Baker
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Hi Lancelot,

I have well understood the value of creating a FAQ  :thumbsup:
Primarily for users.
It avoids searching for information dispersed in various posts
It also helps reduce the support by avoiding to rewrite several times the same things.
.....
However, if all the answers are given, less guys will come for making live the forum but it will allow to move on other subjects and we are not chasing the number of click, here  :wink: 

It is not the first time you've Suggested me and you're right  :smile:
I must have a small blockage with with Shakespeare's Language. I'm more comfortable with the language of Verlaine, Beaudelaire, Victor Hugo,...  :w00t:
I'll try to make an effort to get started even if very lightweight in a first step.
In addition a topic would also be good and would allow some, to add their Questions/Answers or their tricks.

Maybe I'll update the project at first, next week.
Particularly because of the BSOD "Cache_manager" (quite annoying) and in relation with some limitations of Windows 8.1 fbwf driver.
It looks really much better now, with the patch to use Win8 embedded Standard fbwf driver  :thumbsup:.
There is also many other small useful improvements already on the server.
I could start then, the Faq more calmly with the way of your turtle :turtle:. If someone wants to help, he is welcome  :cool:

Re: Win81pese feedback and Windows setup.
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2014, 12:03:37 AM »

Atari800xl

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...sorry, removed...
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 02:12:22 AM by Atari800xl »

 

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